OCTOBER 6, 1987
POISON ATTACKS BRYN; THE FEUD WITH POISON
I want to dedicate this song to the band Poison. This is called "Nice Boys Don't Play Rock N' Roll."
The Troubadour, September 20, 1985; retold in Marc Canter, "Reckless Road", 2007
Christ... You should read the hate mail I get from their fans.
_________________________________________________________
One of the main competitors on the rock scene in Hollywood when Guns N' Roses was starting out was the band Poison who was well established in the flourishing L.A. glam rock scene.. As Jeanna Barsamian, booker at the club Troubadour would say about them in early 1986, "They're the top drawing (club) band in L.A. When they play people pour in to see them" [Los Angeles Times, February 9, 1986].
Poison was about escaping reality. As Bob Dalli, bassist in Poison, would say, "We dress up to give you your money's worth" and "Poison does not have a political message to give to anyone. […] Everything we do is about day-to-day life. We’re entertainment, pure escapism. We’re here to make you forget about your problems, forget about Monday through Friday [Chicago Tribune, September 7, 1986].
Guns N' Roses also started out with one foot in the glam scene [Chicago Tribune, September 7, 1986] and would wear make-up and typical glam clothes for their first shows. Chris Weber, who played with Izzy and Axl in Hollywood Rose before Guns N' Roses would claim they revived the glam scene in Hollywood:
We had Izzy's little tape deck, and this girl named Laura came by and she turned us onto Hanoi Rocks and we really got into them. We were the first band to really revive glam in Los Angeles because back then heavy metal and leather and studs were in. It was really big to wear black, spandex, and studs, and we started wearing bright colors and makeup. We were the first band to do that since the '70's, when the last glam bands died out, right before punk. We wanted to revamp it in Los Angeles. In the beginning, we got a lot of flack for it, with our big hair, a million different ways. My hair was white and Izzy's was blue/black, and we had these rhinestone earrings, scarves, pink leather jackets and high-heeled boots. We got a lot of sh*t, but we were really proud. We went up there and played a lot of hard rocking stuff, a little heavier than Guns N' Roses is now. So we had that glam thing going, and people started catching on to it. We were friends with Poison and they were kinda dressing like that too.
Slash would talk about how important the image was to the early Guns N' Roses:
It’s 75 percent music and 75 percent image. No matter what the music is, the kids need to have something visual to relate to. They need to look up and see someone who’s definitely ... having a good time. They need to feel a relationship with your attitude, something they can stand behind so they don’t feel alienated.
But in contrast to Poison, Guns N' Roses was dead serious in their music and used the music as a vehicle to describe the nitty gritty reality of the streets on which they lived. The band would also soon drop the glam outfits and instead go for a more punk and hard rock style. In subsequent interviews they would emphasize the differences between them and bands like Poison who they considered to be posers first and musicians second.
In LA there’s a million people who think they’re musicians and only a few who are.
[Talking about dressing up before shows]: Like Poison, sure. I just can't do that, it's so fake and it's really asinine to me, you know. There's no real rock and roll attitude in a lot of things I see today, and I'm not trying to say we're better and this and that, just I know we have the right attitude.
The animosity between GN'R and Poison would go back to when the bands used to open up for each other in the bands early days. Slash would recount being pissed at poison guitarist CC DeVille (the man who competed with Slash for the Poison lead guitar spot before Slash joined Guns N' Roses) because he allegedly had started to copy Slash's gimmick of wearing a top hat:
Some nights [Poison]'d come on first, some nights we would. It really didn't matter which one of us came on first, neither of us had a really big following yet. A lot of people would just come down to the club to see what was going on and then split. […] Anyway, every time those assholes played first, Bret Michaels would end their set by announcing that Poison were having a big party somewhere, and everybody was invited, but those who wanted to go would have to come now because the band bus was leaving in 15 minutes! […] And man, the people who frequent the sort of dives we were playing in those days didn't need to be asked twice to go to some party somewhere, and within minutes the f**kin' club would be empty! We'd come on and play to half a dozen no-hopers who couldn't get it up in time to leave when everybody else did . . . I tell ya, they were always into pulling sneaky, sh*tty little stunts like that. Full of dirty tricks. And that kind of attitude sucks, man . . . I think it's because they're insecure about their talent. And then some time after that, when we both started getting some attention, I couldn't believe it when that CC DeVille started wearing a top hat onstage! Listen, I'm not saying I was the first rock and roller ever to wear a top hat onstage. But look, man, CC's the kind of guy who probably didn't even know what a top hat looked like until he saw me wearing one... You know, I caught up with him one night in the Rainbow, and I just told him quietly, 'If I ever see you wearing a top hat onstage again, I'm gonna shoot you!' I tell ya, he freaked, man! [laughter]. And I mean, I don't own a gun ... wouldn't know how to use one if I did. And I'm really not a violent guy at all. I just felt something had to be said to that f**ker ... Sometimes, you gotta draw the line for people.
They are bill masters of low kicks and dirty and mean rigging. They got on my nerves in a creepy way, although I knew they were doing it all out of self-doubt. But the biggest bummer came when we both signed contracts when C.C. DeVille (Poison's guitarist) started wearing a top hat!
Rock-Pop, January 1989; translated from Serbian
Duff would confirm that Poison "f*cked [them] over on the LA scene" in the band's early days [Hit Parader, October 1988].
This would contribute to GN'R repeatedly taking potshots at Poison in interviews and articles.
We don't want to associate ourselves with glam and the main reason, is because that's what Poison associates themselves with. I've told those guys personally that they can lock me in a room with all of them and I'll be the only one who walks out! They used to come to our shows before they ever played a gig. Everybody copying them? Sorry I don't see it. Poison came out in an article saying they started glam - I don't know where they were in the '70s [laughs]. The only reason I put my hair up is because Izzy had these pictures of Hanoi Rocks and they were cool, and because we hung out with this guy who studied Vogue magazine hairstyles and was really into doing hair....
[…] we're not filling anybody's shoes, so to speak. We're not trying to get live radio play, we're not trying to… to… We're not trying to be like Poison, you know. We're not trying to sacrifice ourselves to the media or anything.
Poison? I'm not too interested in them. It’s a totally different band than us; their audience is different and so is the music. Poison is a band that may appeal to girls, but, other than that, I think their music is without substance.
Hard Force [French], October 1987; translated from French
Axl would be dismayed by the influence Poison had on the LA music scene:
Poison f*cked it up for all of us. They said that everyone in LA was following their trend.
In particular the animosity between Slash and DeVille would be strong:
CC from Poison came up to me the other day like he was like my last best friend in the whole world, and came to me shake my hand I told him to get the hell out of my face [laughs].
In July 1988, Slash would talk about how the feud started:
Before I joined this band, I used to play in any band that I thought I could get exposure from. I developed a bad reputation as sort of a mercenary for doing that. I almost joined Poison at one point. Their old guitarist Matt [Smith] called me and said he was leaving the hand. and that if anyone could replace him, it was me. It was down to a choice between me and C.C. DeVille. They wanted us to do this thing where I'd play a riff and then go, 'Hi! My name as Slash' And I couldn't bring myself to do that. so they hired [C.C.].
Later on down the line, I met him. And I couldn't understand him. He pissed me off, and the next day I made the mistake of mentioning it in another magazine The next thing I knew one sentence about C.C. DeVille had turned into an entire article!
OCTOBER 6, 1987: POISON DOUSES BRYN
The sniping back and forth between the bands would eventually escalate to two members of Poison pouring alcohol (champagne, according to BAM Magazine), on Geffen publicist Bryn Bridenthal [BAM Magazine, November 1987; Rolling Stone, November 11, 1988], allegedly because they felt she was showing favoritism to GN'R [Juke Magazine, July 15, 1989].
In a following lawsuit, Bridenthal would describe what had happened, as recounted by Los Angeles Times:
In the December issue of Hit Parader magazine, a member of Guns N’ Roses said Poison was made up of “posers,” who represent “everything bad about rock ‘n’ roll.
[Bryn Bridenthal] Housman, a publicist for Guns N’ Roses, said the article was apparently enough to make her a target when she ran into Poison band members at a party Oct. 6 that followed a concert by Motley Crue and Whitesnake.
The publicist said she was ready to leave the party about midnight when Dall confronted her and began “ranting” about the article. Dall then threw a cup of beer into her face, she told police. After she dried off in a restroom, Housman said, she was grabbed by Dall and Michaels and doused with a second beer and with ice water from what she believes was a champagne bucket. Housman said she then was escorted outside by Forum security officers.
The dispute did not end at the Forum. According to the lawsuit, Poison manager Tom Mohler “continues to threaten to ‘ruin’ Housman at Geffen Records, and within the music industry, if she speaks to the press about the unprovoked attack on her by Dall and Michaels. . . .”
Bridenthal would much later recount how it had gone down:
I was talking to Bobby Dall at the L.A. Forum after a Mötley Crüe show and he was all anti–Guns N’ Roses. There was an article that Andy Secher ran in Hit Parader where Slash said that Poison was everything he hated about rock ’n’ roll, that they were posers. Andy said to me, “Do you want me to take this out?” And I said, “Well, did he say it?” He said, “Yes.” He had it on tape. I said, “Then let it play. It’s true.” Bobby was raging about it. What I did bad, I will admit, is that I had a big grin on my face when I talked to him. I thought this was just hysterical. I said, “Bobby, this isn’t Time magazine for Christ’s sake, it’s the Hit Parader. I don’t see how a band that sold two million records can feel so threatened by a band that hasn’t even sold two hundred thousand.” And he looked at me and he threw his beer in my face.
Tom Beaujour and Richard Bienstock, Nöthin' But a Good Time: The Uncensored History of the '80s Hard Rock Explosion, 2021
According to Bridenthal, she would then have to plea with Slash and Axl to not fight the Poison members [Juke Magazine, July 15, 1989]. Guns N' Roses, who was touring USA at the moment, sent a postcard in support to Bryn:
Postcard sent from Guns N' Roses to Bryn BridenthalOctober 22, 1987
Arlett Vereecke, the band's other publicist, would later suggest the postcard has been Niven's idea:
That's probably Alan Niven because the guys wouldn't send postcard, I can tell you that much. Alan Niven even probably did, he had them sign it or something, because it would, it wouldn't come out. They were busy with drugs and with music. You know, writing a postcard was probably the furthest thing from their minds at that time, but I'm sure that they signed it.
But Bridenthal would mention that the band was truly upset with her mistreatment and that she tried talking Axl and Slash away from violence:
When Axl and Slash heard what happened, they both had such a violent reaction, I just kept talking real fast, begging them not to do anything. I said, 'Please let me handle this my way. Your career and tour is much more important than Poison and I don't want you breaking anything.' Both of 'em said they weren't gonna break anything. They were gonna break Poison! I just told them, 'You never know, it might be an accident and what if you hurt yourself. It isn't worth it.'
This incident led to a civil lawsuit between either Geffen, Bridenthal or GN'R and Poison [BAM Magazine, November 1987; Rolling Stone, November 11, 1988] which would be settled out of court [RAW, March 7, 1989].
[Bryn Bridenthal] Housman has suffered physical and emotional trauma, according to the lawsuit, including a twitching right eye, frequent outbursts of crying and loss of sleep. The suit, filed in Los Angeles Superior Court, demands $1.1 million in damages and a restraining order to prevent Poison members and their manager from approaching Housman
Speaking of the lawsuit:
I’d like to pull down their pants at high noon on Main Street. They’re thinking this is all cute and adorable. They think they can just go around assaulting women and get away with it.
I hope to show Poison that they made a gross error in judgment and to help them to be remorseful.
Well, I won't slag [Poison], though I'd like to. [...] The epitome of Los Angeles is Poison, and what's wrong with Los Angeles. Okay? Enough said.
In the liner notes to Appetite, the band would refer to Bridenthal as "Bryn 'I Love Danger' Bridenthal":
When the Gunners listed me as Bryn 'I love danger' Bridenthal on Appetite for Destruction, I took it as a compliment. But Axl has since taught me the true meaning of the word 'danger.'
1988: THE FEUD DIES DOWN
By early 1988 it seems the squabbling between the two bands were over:
Let me tell you, the feud between us and Poison isn’t even a feud. It’s just a situation that happened between me and one of their band members, and it was nothing so serious that had to turn into this full-blown type of ordeal. It held no bearing on the rest of the guys in the band.
I don’t have anything against the entire band enough for them to go and cause a major problem with the lady from our record company, and I haven’t said anything else in the press about it. It’s not been such a major concern that it’s on my mind, and if they want to take it that far, they can, but the only thing I have to say is that I thought it was in really bad taste.
If they really wanted to make a point about it, they could have come to me, or they could have come to the rest of the band, who, in turn, would have talked to me about it. I don’t want to start a fight with them. I don’t want to try to beat them up. I don’t want to do anything like that. All I can say is that something was blown way out of proportion by a member of the so-called press, and it was nowhere near as big a statement as it was made out in print to be, so I can understand the misunderstanding there, but at the same time, regardless, I don’t think the whole thing is answered by that kind of action. I’ll stand behind what I did say, but I won’t stand behind what the press said, and, you know, basically, you’re on your own!
[We] sat down and talked it out. Yeah. we do have our differences from when we were both on the street playing the club circuit. But they're doing their thing and we're doing ours, and we're not really in each other's way, so we don't have the time to deal with this bullsh*t anymore.
What Slash is referring to in the first quote here, and earlier in this chapter, is a comment towards DeVille that was published in Hit Parader [Metal Edge, January 1989]. This interview is now lost.
According to Axl, the feud between GN'R and Poison would finally be settled some time in May or June 1988 when Axl had a talk with Brett Michaels:
We had some really heavy differences. Poison's comments were retaliations against comments we made. We talked about it that night. I said, 'We've got our differences from when we were rival bands on the street. We still have those, but I don't have time for 'em, you don't have time for 'em. You're doing what you're doing, I'm doing what I'm doing, let's just f*ckin' right now put 'em aside.
But the air has been cleared. It's over. I'm not out to get them.
Although in October 1988, Slash would still throw insults towards Poison:
I can’t deal with that rock star bullsh*t, which just permeates this whole f*ckin’ business. Even in the new bands, who have no business acting like that. You know, like, “We’ve got our three chords, ’cos some of the guys in Poison taught ’em to us... I just don’t care any more, I really don’t care. Somebody made a T-shirt for me with POISON SUCKS written on it... […] Axl wore it on stage. ’Cos I’d just gotten it, this was with Aerosmith, and I was like, shall I wear this? Then I thought, naw, and Axl was like, “I’ll wear it!” And off he went...
Mick Wall, GUNS N' ROSES: The Most Dangerous Band in the World, Sidgwick & Jackson, U.K. 1991, 1993; interview from October 1988
We really hate Poison —they totally emphasize everything we hate in a band! They're like the type of guys who got turned onto rock 'n' roll by Circus magazine, you know? They saw pictures and said 'Oh yeah, this looks cool, we can get girls!' They probably went shopping and picked all their clothes and stuff and then went and bought their instruments. They pick up a guitar and learn how to play three chords and go out onstage.
When asked if this squabbling wasn't getting a bit petty:
Yeah, but there’s never gonna be a relationship there ’cos it’s like, even if they come up and say hi and this and that I still have a f*ckin’ deep hatred for what they’re all about.
Mick Wall, GUNS N' ROSES: The Most Dangerous Band in the World, Sidgwick & Jackson, U.K. 1991, 1993; interview from October 1988
And then recounted a story about meeting Bret Michaels at the Rainbow in Hollywood:
Izzy was the one who grabbed him. That was so funny. I was drunk, there was a whole table of us, and I was sitting at the head. The next thing you know Izzy’s got Bret Michaels to sit down. So there’s Bret in between the two of us... […] [He was scared] sh*tless. I was so f*cked up and it was like, me and Izzy sitting either side of him, so he’s getting it from both ends. In stereo! I mean, I wouldn’t like to sit next to a couple of Poison guys like that.
Mick Wall, GUNS N' ROSES: The Most Dangerous Band in the World, Sidgwick & Jackson, U.K. 1991, 1993; interview from October 1988
Then finding Bobby Dall in his apartment:
Another time I had Bobby [Dall] in my apartment. I was staying at the Franklin Plaza and Steven brought him over. I was in the bedroom dealing with some other sh*t and Steven had just gone back to his apartment for a second and was coming back, but I didn’t know. So I came out into the living room and I looked and Bobby was on the couch. I was, like, what is this f*cking guy doing in my apartment?
He was tripping over himself just trying to make amends. That’s when I first decided, OK, fine, we’ll leave it. Then they came out with their next video and it’s awful! It’s an insult to my intelligence for them to do what they’re doing. What we’re doing has nothing to do with that. Like, I can say hi and hello, I don’t have anything against them as people. I just hate what they play.
I guess there’s a place for it and it works...
Mick Wall, GUNS N' ROSES: The Most Dangerous Band in the World, Sidgwick & Jackson, U.K. 1991, 1993; interview from October 1988
Then, likely not longer thereafter, Slash would have a talk to CC DeVille and would square up like Axl had done:
That whole situation got to be a real mess. I thought I was just making some honest comments, and then all hell broke loose. But after the dust settled I got together with C.C. and we've worked everything out. Actually, he's pretty cool. I really never had anything against him personally, but maybe when all that sh*t began to happen I wasn't in the right frame of mind to accept his success. There's room for everyone in this industry; we're not out to make any enemies.
I tried to bury the hatchet. I have nothing against those guys—I don’t have a vendetta against them
Axl's quote about being locked up with Poison but only he coming out of the room [see above], would be attributed to Slash and when asked to comment on it, Slash would say:
I don't know if that was the actual remark, something like that, but I've been advised by the powers that be not to talk about that. There's already a magazine out with my feelings on it in big bold letters… I mean, I'd enjoy doing it, if I had it my way - I say all kinds of stuff, but I'm supposed to act like an adult….
In March 1989, Poison's Rikki Rocket would be asked about the feud with GN'R and answer:
Our bands don't hate each other. It's like once something's in the press it becomes an 'Issue', whether it's true or not. […] They've done well, more power to them. We made it before they did... I'm not trying to sidestep the question, but if I get too into it then I'll have another f**king lawsuit, know what I'm saying?
RAW, March 7, 1989
And Bret Michaels would discuss it later:
There was a verbal feud created, first and foremost, by the press. In other words, it was a-- You know, there was the cover of Hit Parader with Brett Michaels vs. Axl Rose -- which immediately says to any fan: Hey, these guys must be feuding. Well, then, the next thing was -- you know, which was really surprising to me in that whole thing -- is Axl came out with a pair of chaps that says GLAM SUCKS -- right? Obviously taking a swipe at us, right? And I'm like: Well, f*ck -- this guy was more glam than any of us. (Laughs) Which was really odd to me. I'm like going: Now, this guy's the guy that was like, you know, was one of the inventors of that sorta -- I call it "gypsy glam," or whatever you want to call it.
[…]
I mean, yeah -- it definitely got violent. I mean, it got, you know, the f*ck you's. You know, everything was exchanged except for the final blow ... if you know what I'm getting at. You know how all the words come out, and all the sh*t -- and then, finally, Bobby and Slash and me just sorta said: What the f*ck are we all --? You know, here we are -- we're struggling to make it, you're struggling to make it. You know, and at this point our second record had come out, and this is just as their first one was coming. And our second record, for whatever reason, just came out, and we opened up, and it started out -- it came out of the box at like a million and a half or two million copies. And I just think it was one of those things that Guns N' Roses was just coming out -- and then look what happened with their career. These f*ckers made one of the best records in history.
[…]
I mean, I consider "Appetite for Destruction" to be up there with "Highway to Hell" -- which, to me, is one of the all-time-- You know, I consider "Appetite for Destruction" -- not just the songs, but the actual sound of the record. I mean, I can put that record on at any time and say: That's a great-sounding record.
In 2011, Michaels would say it was mostly a media-generated feud and indicate it helped sell records:
Let me be very straight with that. That was more of a feud in the media than it was in real life.
Guns N' Roses, Motley Crue and Poison were rock bands that were really passionate about what they did. Without a doubt there's a certain amount of competition. You wanna go out there and put on the best show but that friendly competition is good.
It helped to sell records back then. Guns N' Roses and Poison were touring, doing the same stadiums and both record labels Capitol and Geffen they'd go back and forth with these big publicity releases and then I would see the guys, I'd go to their shows and hang out with them and I'm thinking 'in the media we're fighting but in the real world we're friends.' 'Appetite For Destruction' is one of my Top 10 ever favorite records."
Triple M (via Blabbermouth), September 20, 2011
